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Tikipedia

posts: 8
I am very eagerly awaiting this theme ... that look is one reason I was thinking of going with MediaWiki rather than TikiWiki. Would should it be available?
posts: 254 Japan

Today I'm going through the CSS file once more looking for things that haven't been styled yet that should be, selectors that aren't being used and so can be deleted, etc.

I'll check to make sure there aren't any new problems with the just-released Tiki 1.9.3.1 — there shouldn't be.

So probably today or tomorrow it'll get zipped up and uploaded.

-- Gary


posts: 1 United States
I am very eagerly awaiting this theme ... that look is one reason I was thinking of going with MediaWiki rather than TikiWiki. Would should it be available?


I think there are quite a few awaiting this great looking theme.

MediaWiki can't hold a candle to the functionality of TikiWiki...IMHO!! Love this theme....love TikiWiki more!!


posts: 254 Japan
I am very eagerly awaiting this theme ... that look is one reason I was thinking of going with MediaWiki rather than TikiWiki. Would should it be available?


Just uploaded it. I hope it works OK for people; let me know if there are any problems. Actually the page-top tabs aren't done in every case. I think there's a tracker edit page like that. Also Directory tabs in IE still lack a top border for some reason; but I didn't want to take any more time getting the theme out.

-- Gary


posts: 11
I am very eagerly awaiting this theme ... that look is one reason I was thinking of going with MediaWiki rather than TikiWiki. Would should it be available?


I hope you are not serious about this. I like the content and layout of Wikipedia but there is a very basic reason why I cannot use MediaWiki and went with Tikiwiki instead.

The main reason is accountability through authorship. As I stated in my post in another Tikiwiki forum, as good as the contents of Wikipedia, they will not be considered as serious source of information unless people know who wrote those stuff. How much trust, for example, would you give to a heallth information article in Wikipedia, if you do not know who wrote it?

The other key issue for me is more a philosophical point of view. I agree with some other developers of wikis that there is no single "true perspective" — something that Wikipedia is trying to develop through consensus — supposedly from alertness of others who are going to correct what is perceived to be incorrect.

I do not wish to make this a political debate, but let me use a very controversial issue to illustrate this point. Take the struggle for statehood by the Israelis and the Palestinians, and the resulting worldwide implications as a consequence of the historical conflicts between these two peoples. To an extent, many of the problems that have affected many of us worldwide — high oil energy prices, Sept 11 2001, bombings, etc. are linked to a certain degree to the differences in perspective between the Israelis and Palestinians and their inability not to get along as peoples — who in total constitute less than 1% percent of the entire world population. The muddled meddling of the Western world to this conflict just exacerbated the issue further; to the extent that eventually we all suffered and still continue to deal with the ramifications.

Going back to my point, it is not really a case of who is right or wrong between these two peoples — the Israelis and the Palestinians — because the reference point in the arguments are never the same. In fact, based from my own readings and recent events there, the perspectives of people in Israel and in the Palestinian homelands are not as rigig as many of us in the Western world take. There is really no right and wrong, nor truth and falsehood when it comes to the struggles for statehood between the Israelis and Palestinians — it is more a matter of perspective.

To bring this back to Wikipedia, the "resulting truth" that is achieved in the format of the "mediawiki" way is dependent on the people who participate, or should we say most persistent. As a result, it is most likely a Western perspective, quite different from the world view sometimes.

Many now, even within the higher echelons of wikipedia, find the limits of their way at achieving what is "true or accurate" information to be flawed. Others have decided, that there is no single correct perspective.

In a sense, this is what Tikiwiki and other divergence from the original Wikipedia are trying to do — allow the presentation of differences in perspectives but avoiding anarchic and anonymous presentation of information, thereby fostering accountability. In Tikiwiki, this is achieved through the checks and balances that is possible with its elaborate permissions systems. It is not foolproof though because whether we like it or not, whoever is the Administrator of the Tikiwiki page will always have the upper edge in shaping that perspective.

cgc0202


posts: 8
cgc0202, exactly what does your post have to do with my liking the layout of MediaWiki? Wikipedia doesn't factor into this at all.

posts: 8

First questions:

The body seems too wide. Even on my large screen, I end up scrolling to the right.

Is there an option for menus on the right?

posts: 8

First questions:

The body seems too wide. Even on my large screen, I end up scrolling to the right.

Is there an option for menus on the right?


Also, the Wiki Help is open when I go to edit the page. Can it be set to be closed when I enter edit mode?

And can I remove the logo at the upper left? I want to replace it with a random screenshow.

posts: 254 Japan

First questions:

The body seems too wide. Even on my large screen, I end up scrolling to the right.{Is there an option for menus on the right?

No, there's no option for putting modules on the right side. The point was to make the theme a Mediawiki emulation. But scrolling shouldn't be needed even with the present layout. If you have to scroll even when there's no wide object in the main content area to force a scroll, then there's a problem with the theme design that needs to be fixed. Do you always have a horizontal scrollbar when using the Tikipedia theme, or does it appear in certain situations? What browser are you using? Any particular page or page content — i.e., tables, etc.? Please give me as many details as possible, so I can try to fix the problem.

Also, the Wiki Help is open when I go to edit the page. Can it be set to be closed when I enter edit mode?

And can I remove the logo at the upper left? I want to replace it with a random screenshow.

The open wikihelp is a CSS switch, which I apparently missed. I'll take a look and correct it.

Replacing the logo is described in the README-FIRST text file that's included in the theme download, and on the appropriately named Customizing_Tikipedia page. wink If you check these and still have questions, let me know.

(Actually those docs just describe replacing the default logo image with another image. This theme, like the Mediawiki Monobook theme, uses the background image of a div as the logo. So your case won't exactly follow the instructions. You'll have to modify tiki.tpl to use the div for a random image display. Just put your random-image syntax/code/link whatever in the logo div.)

-- Gary

posts: 8
{QUOTE()}

First questions:

The body seems too wide. Even on my large screen, I end up scrolling to the right.{Is there an option for menus on the right?

No, there's no option for putting modules on the right side. The point was to make the theme a Mediawiki emulation. But scrolling shouldn't be needed even with the present layout. If you have to scroll even when there's no wide object in the main content area to force a scroll, then there's a problem with the theme design that needs to be fixed. Do you always have a horizontal scrollbar when using the Tikipedia theme, or does it appear in certain situations? What browser are you using? Any particular page or page content — i.e., tables, etc.? Please give me as many details as possible, so I can try to fix the problem.

It seems to be happening on all the pages, just a enough so that there is a scroll to the right. It happens on your pages here as well.

NOTE: This occurs on FireFox, looks all right on IE. Of course, I always use FireFox. :-)

I realized that question about the right menu bar was silly after I typed it.

On a sidenote, having Site Identidy active while using this theme seems to work fine.

Also, the Wiki Help is open when I go to edit the page. Can it be set to be closed when I enter edit mode?

And can I remove the logo at the upper left? I want to replace it with a random screenshow.

The open wikihelp is a CSS switch, which I apparently missed. I'll take a look and correct it.

Replacing the logo is described in the README-FIRST text file that's included in the theme download, and on the appropriately named Customizing_Tikipedia page. wink If you check these and still have questions, let me know.

(Actually those docs just describe replacing the default logo image with another image. This theme, like the Mediawiki Monobook theme, uses the background image of a div as the logo. So your case won't exactly follow the instructions. You'll have to modify tiki.tpl to use the div for a random image display. Just put your random-image syntax/code/link whatever in the logo div.)

Okay, I'll give it a try.


posts: 4 United States

Hi,

Appreciate all your hard work.
I have no idea where the one poster is going with his complaints about Wikipedia??
These are themes for goodness sake, if you dont like the theme use another one!

I was wondering about one thing though.
The Toolbox is now text on the left side.
Is it possible to make this be the icons top right of page?
I'm not sure how to do this.

posts: 254 Japan

Hi,

Appreciate all your hard work.
I have no idea where the one poster is going with his complaints about Wikipedia??
These are themes for goodness sake, if you dont like the theme use another one!


I think he was just saying why he didn't want to use Mediawiki — because who authored the page is not as clear as with Tiki. So Tiki with a Mediawiki Monobook theme is a good solution. But anyway....

I was wondering about one thing though.
The Toolbox is now text on the left side.
Is it possible to make this be the icons top right of page?
I'm not sure how to do this.


Do you mean up where the log-in link is, and when you say "be the icons" do you mean use the icon images rather than text links?

Well, it's possible, but would take some reworking of the templates, and would be hard to explain without getting into the specifics. I'll see about doing a wiki page on the topic of Customizing Tikipedia Part Deux or something. wink Actually that's in the spirit of why the theme was done: not only to emulate Mediawiki/Monobook, but to use it as a jumping off point.

-- Gary

posts: 4 United States


Toolbox Icons or Module

Do you mean up where the log-in link is, and when you say "be the icons" do you mean use the icon images rather than text links?
Well, it's possible, but would take some reworking of the templates, and would be hard to explain without getting into the specifics.


Hi Gary,
Yes that is what I meant.
I think there is validity to the separation of content navigation from functions or actions upon that content.
I see printing, watching and similar actions as related to the CURRENT page, so I prefer to see them on the page content (like TOC, etc.)
Whereas structure navigation, menus, etc. are fine as text on the left.
Tikineat theme does this quite well. (attached gif)
I guess it's a template change, not a module show/hide, so I don't want to rock your mediawiki view of the world too much, I just like this from a usability standpoint.


Login Module
The login module I have sort of the opposite problem.
I cannot for the life of me get the login to show up as a MODULE on the left top.
I have it turned on, not cached and set to position 1 or 0, assign to anonymous and registered and it just won't show up for me, whereas it does show up just fine in other styles.

I'm not fond of more than one click to log in. Right now user has to find the very small text login at top right, page loads, then they can log in.
In other styles you can just have that module appear left/right and it's an immediate login from the home page if it's assigned to anyoymous.

Am I missing something

posts: 254 Japan

Toolbox Icons or Module

Do you mean up where the log-in link is, and when you say "be the icons" do you mean use the icon images rather than text links?
Well, it's possible, but would take some reworking of the templates, and would be hard to explain without getting into the specifics.


Hi Gary,
Yes that is what I meant.
I think there is validity to the separation of content navigation from functions or actions upon that content.
I see printing, watching and similar actions as related to the CURRENT page, so I prefer to see them on the page content (like TOC, etc.)
Whereas structure navigation, menus, etc. are fine as text on the left.
Tikineat theme does this quite well. (attached gif)
I guess it's a template change, not a module show/hide, so I don't want to rock your mediawiki view of the world too much, I just like this from a usability standpoint.

What you're saying is logical and could be incorporated in maybe a Tikipedia variant at some point. Right now I don't have time to get into that. Maybe someone else could or I could have a go at it later on.

Login Module
The login module I have sort of the opposite problem.
I cannot for the life of me get the login to show up as a MODULE on the left top.
...

Am I missing something


Yes, but you're excused: it isn't obvious. ;-) In order for the log-in module to display correctly in other themes but not in Tikipedia, I gave it a "display:none" property in tikipedia.css. Find

div#rightcolumn div.box-login_box,
div#leftcolumn div.box-login_box {
	display: none;
}
in tikipedia.css and delete or comment it out (with /* (commented out code) */ tags). Then the log-in module should display as you set on your admin modules page.


-- Gary

posts: 4 United States

{QUOTE}
Login Module
The login module ...I cannot for the life of me get the login to show up as a MODULE on the left top.

In order for the log-in module to display correctly in other themes but not in Tikipedia, I gave it a "display:none" property in tikipedia.css
{/QUOTE}

Thanks Gary, that did the trick it works perfect!

Now, one last question. How do I go about removing the Tiki / CMS Groupware text and date lines?

I was successful in removing
div.logo-box #tikipedia-logo
by using display : none; in a few instances, which makes my left column navigation nice and tight, so I can focus on my structure modules.

But for the life of me I can't find how to turn off that Tiki / CMS text line.
Is it part of Site Title?
I do need the top menus Edit Remove Rename, etc., so I don't want to lose those.

posts: 254 Japan
Now, one last question. How do I go about removing the Tiki / CMS Groupware text and date lines?


As with other themes, those lines (or similar) are in tiki-top_bar.tpl — templates/tikipedia/tiki-top_bar.tpl, specifically.

I was successful in removing
div.logo-box #tikipedia-logo
by using display : none; in a few instances, which makes my left column navigation nice and tight, so I can focus on my structure modules.

But for the life of me I can't find how to turn off that Tiki / CMS text line.
Is it part of Site Title?
I do need the top menus Edit Remove Rename, etc., so I don't want to lose those.


I'd recommend getting a text editor that can search for a text string in a directory of files. Then you can enter "Tiki CMS/Groupware" or whatever in a search of the Tikipedia theme directories and it'll turn up the file and show you the line, which you can then edit. For Windows, TextPad is a good shareware editor that can do this, and I'm sure there are a lot of others also for other OSs.

-- Gary

posts: 4 United States
{QUOTE()}
Now, one last question. How do I go about removing the Tiki / CMS Groupware text and date lines?


As with other themes, those lines (or similar) are in tiki-top_bar.tpl — templates/tikipedia/tiki-top_bar.tpl, specifically.
{QUOTE()}

Thanks, that worked perfectly, and yes, I use TexPad like crazy!
I found the file in /templates/styles/tikipedia/....

I also use WinMerge to compare code and Navicat to manage MySql operations and such. They are all great tools for this type of work.

So now I'm all set.

Strangely enough, i have this forum set to WATCH, but I never get email notification when you post here, so I have to keep checking manually. Weird

Thanks again, this is turning out to really be the best style of all time for me, but more importantly for business clients who need a clean, uncluttered, and simple to understand layout.


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